How Adrian Everett Built HR Crowd with Heart and Purpose

0:00It's Ian Mark on IT Mastermind Talks. And today I've got Adrian Everett, who is the co-CEO of HR Crowd SAP recruitment outsourcing specialist company, but he's going to go into that in more detail around what they do. But we're going to start off first by welcoming Adrian onto the show today. I know Adrian for quite a while. I've actually worked with him in the past back when I first arrived in Australia from the UK. so I've I've known him for quite a few years. Back in 2005, I think it was February, well, no, actually October 2005, I think I I went on to to a client site with him many years ago. So, I've worked with Adrian in in many forms. I've seen him around the traps and I've know a lot about his journey to get to where he is today. But we're going to talk a bit about that today on the show and and get the people out there to know a little bit about Adrian. Welcome to IT Mastermind Talks, your access to insights and experiences from thought leaders in the IT services industry and those that support the industry.

1:03Our podcast features not only the seasoned professionals charting their start to exit journey, but also the key contributors who help ensure the success. We delve into the diverse challenges encountered within the IT services realm, encompassing both professional hurdles and personal obstacles. Join us, be part of our growing community and engage in the conversation hosted by Ian Markram of Loading Growth. How you going

1:30Not too bad, Ian. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. Adrian, on our questionnaire, we go through a bit of a question framework just to help people get to know you and what you do. and we're going to start really at the beginning. right at the beginning of you know when you're at school what did you do at school and how did you get into IT services and and so let's just start right at the back and and get you to where you are to HR crowd today so let's start off at school Adrian were you good at school or not

2:01I'm sure there are stories from school where perhaps sport was more focused than the academics at times but certainly the overall school experience was a very positive one So, so Sydney born and bred. I actually went to went to school quite locally to to where I'm based now in terms of the North Sydney area and and working out of Mils Point. So, I haven't necessarily strayed too far from my my school origins. a lot of rugby in my school days and a lot of sport. but at the same time was was very very IT focused and actually did a an external electronics course through my my school certificate as well as studying IT at school. I then continued on to University of Sydney and then moved into a bachelor of business from there and it was actually through that experience that I landed myself in this industry called the SAP industry. So it was straight out of university in a a work experience capacity that I I started with a a consulting organization in North Sydney and and worked in the the SAP change and training space but it was actually within a an HR and payroll operational role for them. So this is way back in the year 2000 and that's that's when I started my career in in the SAP

3:09Brilliant. Brilliant. Who was that organization back then? It was a company called DA Consulting Group. So they did customized training and change management back in the days when when SAP came with with very very heavily customized individual user guides and documentation and and and training materials. But but my role was an internal role within the the HR and payroll space.

3:29For sure. I remember that company. originally from South Africa, I believe. South Africa. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's great. That's interesting. I didn't know that about you. So, DA obviously got you the first opportunity. DA consulting got your first opportunity in the in that role. how long were you there and did you learn everything that you know there or did you learn something from that that you took over to next job?

3:51There's certainly areas of that role that that carried through to to to to where I am today. obviously starting off doing support of a it was a an R3 SAP system back in the day and and doing you know very simple transactions from personnel administration etc through to then running payrolls etc. so so certainly origins within the HR and payroll space that have carried through today and then from DA consulting group I went into to other partner organizations did some broader roles in account management and and sales for those partner organizations then actually spent a bit of a stint in in the recruitment world for a while ran my own business for roughly about 15

4:31And then also at the same time pursued some other initiatives outside of the traditional SAP space so got involved in the publication of a B2B SAP magazine called Inside SAP magazine which which commenced around 2008. Yeah. And then also something a little bit different along with some other colleagues including inents back in the day with yourself Ian but launched a an SAP ecosystem foundation where we aim to give back to the ecosystem and the SAP community through Red Kite the charity and through the the running of a charity event being the SAP ecosystem regata which which still runs annually and and SAP now runs ongoing.

5:11Yeah, that was a huge success I've got to say Adrian well done for that. I mean when you started that that whole ecosystem charity I presume you didn't think it was going to be as big as it is today when you left it and you handed over to SAP. I mean when you started it it was fairly small I remember going to the first one and when I left out of the I jumped out of the SAP ecosystem when when we sold in it was really big at that time. So yeah just give us a bit of a background what was the passionate around that? So, so there were there were two parts of it. We we always tried as a smaller business and a smaller organization at that time to to do something to give back and something to to help those less fortunate than ourselves and and those going through through tougher times. but as a smaller organization, our contributions weren't as significant or having the impact that we could do as a collective. And so that's really where the idea came to try and get together a group of partner organizations and also SAP themselves and to collectively drive for the same outcome, the same charity and to to give back to the same organization. And that's where we needed a an idea and an and an an event to actually make that happen. And that's where the the regata idea came to to be a a really fantastic opportunity for for executives and for leaders across the SAP industry to actually come together in a very very informal environment, have a bit of fun at the same time, but also then raise some some some critical dollars for for for key charities. So, Red Kite being the beneficiary of that

6:36For sure. So, I've seen you do a few things on LinkedIn and you know Facebook because we're friends on Facebook that you are out there still doing things for the charity. You you do marathon runs or half marathons. just give us a bit of a background there. Are you still doing those things? Yeah, absolutely. So, so as you as you mentioned, the regata is still running and SAP runs that and I think I think this year they actually tick over the the $1 million of funds raised for Red Kite, which will be a huge achievement for for SAP. So, really cool to see

7:03But then also on a similar thread, I've started doing some some charity fundraising for Canto Foundation, which is another cancer research and prevention charity. so locally based charity. And to to do that, I've undertaken five marathons now. raised just over $10,000 doing it. have to admit I'm not the fastest runner out there. I'm certainly not breaking any any speed records, but we're having a bit of fun out there, and it's it's a good social event at the same time. But once again, it's it's just another chance to give back. We we we we lead busy lives. We do lots for our customers, lots for our teams, lots for for for our work, but it's nice to actually be able to do something to give back and also look after yourself at the same time.

7:42Love it. I love it. I think it's a such a a big thing and it's easy to do a one-off, but you've done it so many years on and you know, five marathons and now you've done it basically with Red Kite and SAP ecosystem. I think it's brilliant. The other thing I I think you did really well was that magazine right at the beginning you know by bringing people together, thought leadership, helping people you know have an opinion and and and put a position forward on how to do things properly in that ecosystem. could you just give us a bit of a overview of what did it take and or to actually run a magazine like that because I've never done anything like that and you know and what did you learn the good and the bad just out of curiosity.

8:24Yeah, absolutely. So so there was a very steep learning curve in in in taking on a a publication like that. The idea was born out of I guess an absence of A&Z content and an absence of a real voice for experts in the Australia and New Zealand marketplace who were looking to make people aware of some of the really cool things that are happening down here. The Australian and New Zealand marketplace is unique in many ways particularly in in the HR and payroll world but also across how we do everything from from from assets to manufacturing and supply chain and all all sorts of areas that SAP addresses. We needed a an avenue or a medium for those stories to be told, but those stories to be shared and to allow others to learn from from what everyone was doing individually and and organizations were doing. And so that's where the idea of the magazine came from in terms of what was was learned. The the the work and the effort to produce a magazine and to produce a magazine of of substance and content and to get that distributed in print back then because we didn't have a huge online presence. that that was a huge undertaking. just getting the content together editorial design advertising etc into a publication on a timeline getting that off to the printers and getting that out distributed to to a large number of people across Australia and New Zealand that that that was a massive learning curve a lot of hard work goes into it and I think it's a very very valuable way to get information across but I think in the modern world I think people would be very grateful of the digital presence

9:55That everyone has a as today to make our lives a bit easier. For sure. And you sold that to someone did you in the end or did you just close it down? Yeah. So, so, so ended up exiting that and and it was taken over by another organization who continued to run it. and they ran it for a number of years and then more recently a new publication has taken that space in a in a in a slightly different format but but largely addressing the same audience etc. That's the the ANSAP magazine. Okay. That Shane Morgan and Co. are running. Yeah.

10:25Right. Brilliant. Brilliant. Fantastic. So you learned a lot of skills. You have you've this is the thing I think you know has ste you really well for your current role which we'll get on to later but you've learned a lot of different skills. So you did training you did change management so you understand a bit about people. you're a bit of a team sport player when you back at school days. You've done a lot of around the charity. You you've built ecosystem around charity. you built an ecosystem around a magazine that is that you know there's a lot of common threads there by bringing people together and I think it's it's nice so how did you go from there to like sort of you know the recruitment business you decided that wasn't you at that time and you wanted to move on from that you left the recruitment and you went into the next role after that how did you make that jump obviously you had a name you had a good personal brand out there so that I suppose that jump made it easier Can you just talk through how that jump went to the next the next company and and what happened there?

11:26Absolutely. So so I guess my my career started off working for consulting organizations and for for system integrators and that I guess is where where where I returned to after spending that stint in in recruitment businesses. I learned a lot about how to run organizations and how to build organizations that don't have large branding, large backing and significant infrastructure behind them. The part I didn't have in my skill set was actually large enterprise organizations, how they operate, how they run from a consulting and delivery perspective. And so that's where I moved to a a large global consulting organization and specifically the SAP practice within that organization and continued to to build my skills, build my capability and and and move back into that that SI market where I now play today.

12:13For sure. And that was sales focused in in that regard. Yeah. largely looking after some some some large accounts mainly New South Wales based but a few few other national ones as well and really helping them to drive growth through through those Great. Great. So you obviously you know you know you knew the the the space you sell into very well you had a great team of people around you I think to support you making that transition at the time if I remember correctly and then you basically did really well in that role I believe and enjoyed it. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, and I think the common thread through my entire SAP career has has been people and relationships and making sure that firstly you do right by by by those people that you're working with, but secondly that you make sure that that that whatever it is that your engagement is with that customer or that that the team or the project, that it is as as seamless and easy as possible through those relationships and making sure that each person in those those engagements is carefully looked after. And so so that's what I took into the the the the role with DXE and that's where I was quite successful both within the internal internal relationships between the different practices the internal stakeholders in the organization but then also out to the customers that I was working with and the projects that we oversaw

13:32For sure those big companies and this is no you know pointing at any f fingers about those big companies but those big sis they become unefficient because they got so much luggage between the two practices or three practices and you got to try and maneuver through that. It's a bit of a skill set to actually work on who's the right person to pull out to take them onto the site and and do pre-sales with you for example or so it is it's a bit of a skills. can you just talk a bit about those challenges for for people in those type of roles? Yeah, I think it's I I guess this is from my experience and perspective only, but what I observe not just within the the organization I was working with, but also the other large consulting organizations where we might be partnering on a on an opportunity

14:19In in those size organizations, the complexity and the matrix nature of those organizations can make it very difficult to navigate for the outcome that is actually for the customer rather than for the organization you're working for. And sometimes the focus on that end customer or the project outcome gets lost in the process of how to get there. And the complexity around pricing between organizations or pricing between departments or approvals or oversight and governance can actually lose sight of the the the value and the outcome that the customer should be getting and benefiting from.

14:52Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's I see it all the time and that's why I believe niche players, specialized players like HR crowd for example are needed in the marketplace because there's a huge opportunity. they're laser focused and they get a result for their customers and I think it's you know I'm I'm a big pusher as you know for a specialized consultancy firms and I believe with AI coming along that opportunity for those specialized consultancy firms to flex up and use AI as a buddy as you go through and deliver on client sites will mean quicker faster delivery but also you don't need the big offshore you can start to compete with some of the big offshore teams as around the price and outcomes and I think more and more that will happen over the next couple of years. We'll get back onto that train of thought agent because I think it's really really going to be interesting to hear from how you and you're working with success factors and and the whole ecosystem there to get the results. But before we get there, let's just talk about some more fun things. you've got two sons at the moment. what are they doing at the moment? I think they snowboard quite a bit. They do jiu-jitsu. Can you give us a bit of insight into how your busy life is integrated with him?

16:08Yeah. So, good good time to ask on the first day back to school. It's a much more relaxed relaxed day for for myself and most parents out there, I think. So, after a long couple of weeks of them having too much time on their hands, then they're back to the back to the routine. so, yeah, I've got two very very active active boys, 116, 114. both very very sporty, very very social and very very outgoing individuals. So it's no stop of activity in in my house. Yeah. So there's a lot of a lot of football, a lot of rugby and then the commonality in martial arts and the discipline to be quite progressed. Both of them are black belt karate. both of them have done significant significantly in karate both nationally and internationally as well. So, it's been a a pretty active active journey raising them and guiding them and trying to bring them up into into the world as well.

16:59For sure. I mean, that's a lot of I've got some active kids as well. So, it's a lot of dropping off and picking up amongst trying to close deals, hire staff, make sure delivery gear happens. It's just like a a bit of a blur as you go through the day, I suppose. it must be happening to you as well. So, amazing stuff. keep it up and I hope only the best for your kids as they get older. So let's get on to the next piece now. you how did you start HR Crowd? How did you actually form the the company? And I know some of the founders as well. So that's pretty awesome as well that you've connected with those people. Can you just give us a what was the pivot moment when you decided to get together and create a company?

17:43Yeah, absolutely. So, and I think yeah, so there there were three founders. There was myself and then also Judith Carlson and Herus Carlson. And all three of us have been around the ind industry for for 20 25 years as well. Similar to yourself, Ian. we came together for a number of reasons. Firstly, all three of us have that entrepreneurial drive to you know build and and and and develop a business and de develop teams, develop practices. but the the the main driver was we saw an opportunity to do things a bit differently. we saw an opportunity to to bring ourselves back to the real foundations of what we're trying to do as a consulting organization in terms of delivering outcomes for customers, making sure that customers are getting the right value out of their investment in technology that in in our case success factors or SAP, HR and payroll and to really make sure that the customer is at the what we're trying to do as opposed to some of those complexities we just talked about in larger organizations where some of that that messaging gets lost. So we came together with a a view that we really want to be a specialist. We want it to be a niche within the SAP HR and payroll space.

18:49But we really want to make sure that we help customers to improve the lives of the employees who are actually consuming the system. And that means we needed to bring a combination of both business and technical expertise to the table and we needed to do so in a way that was agile and flexible and able to work closely with the customer in a partnership rather than just doing it to the customer. Right. It's a very very big difference in how you deliver

19:12Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. So when did you start the journey? So we started the journey a long time before we started the company. So good move. There was a lot of Yeah. To say that's a good move because a lot of people phone me up and say I've started this company and what do I do next? I go that should have that should have happened six months ago. That phone call not now when you need work. That's crazy. Please, if anyone's watching out there, please, you know, make sure you got a few customers or things that are happening really close before you jump ship and put the stress on you and your family. So, anyway, Adrian did the first thing, right? Big tick in the box. Well done, Adrian. Let's carry on.

19:52Yeah. So, I think I mean that was the key part for us. We spent a lot of time prior to the foundation of the company. firstly working out our our strategy and our approach and our plans etc. but then also working out what did we need from day one in order to be successful to to to be revenue positive and to make sure that we actually had that momentum that would see us be successful through the the the timing that is typically high risk for for startup organizations and so that meant that we had a good 18-month run before we actually formally launched the company and when we actually launched HR crowd into the market we did so with with that momentum and that drive to really make an impression quite quickly and and and get started from there. So we had our our first customer in mind. we had an existing view of the organizational structure and the leadership team that we wanted to have in place and we knew what our steps were to go and execute quickly.

20:42For sure. This is like the best practice to start a company. This is you guys. Well done. So you had a a structure in your mind about the organization. You had what the client was going to look like, the ideal client for you as well, which I think is really important. because not every client there is the right client. And I and I say this to to the the people I coach is, you've got to really be specific on who you want to target and make sure you get the right clients initially up front, not go for everything and and and become generalist too much. So, can you just talk a bit about the first client that you won and and you don't have to mention names, you can just talk about what you did there, but you know, how did you win that first

21:27Sure. So, so I guess key key to HR crowd and also to I guess my career generally has always been relationship driven. Making sure that the customers that you're going to work with or the customers that you want to work with know that you are there to deliver them an outcome and to help them to be successful and to make sure that you are going to help them to achieve or realize a return on the investment they've made in the technology choices. So, so our first customer was a significantly sized Queensland organization. it was one that there was a an existing trust and an existing relationship with where they knew that we were coming in there with the intent to really help them to improve the way that their system was being consumed. And that meant that we were able to leverage our relationships to work with that customer and really help them over a period of time to get more out of the system and to help their employees have a better experience in how they're engaging with success factors and really to help build out that success factor solution from there.

22:27So it's been quite a successful partnership but it was one built on trust trust respect the deep industry experience of a few of the key people that we had engaged on that customer. but it's been a really good really really good run from there. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk about your organ or structure initially. you you went out and hired the best people in the market by the looks of things. and and you know there's obviously that's probably was one of the strategies. Can you just talk through you know that strategy as [clears throat] you know obviously you wanted the best people to be working in the best team so you went out and hired the best people. Can you just talk through that strategy?

23:06Yeah. Yeah. So, it was part partly a a a deliberate effort to get the best people in the market, of course, but it was also partly a a lowrisk approach because we know the people that we're working with, we've worked with them before and we've got existing relationships with them. And so so by by working with teams that we've worked with in previous roles, whether it be project based or customer based or or or through previous consulting engagements together, we're actually bringing the dynamics of those relationships into the organization. So that even though we're a young organization, the dynamics between our teams and the dynamics in our delivery feel a lot more established and the way that we work together is a lot more established. And so we were able to take that depth of relationship into a new organization, but then deliver in a much more mature and sophisticated way than if we had just started up with people that we didn't know. So, so yes, we went out and we hired the best in the market. We hired the best people out there and the smartest people we could, but at the same time, we hired people we knew that we could work with very, very closely and very well.

24:08And people that would deliver with the same values and the same engagement manner with customers as well. For sure. now your vision of the company now you're the a co-founder there's three of you hernus Judith and yourself and then you are a co-CEO with Judith as well so it's a team effort to to get there how's that how's that team working and obviously that's the leadership team it's the most important team and how are you starting to get the next team below you you know and engaged with your vision and everything else because obviously you you you done a lot of good things right up front. You've had org structure. You had the right roles. You're all actually quite different. the the founders are all very different skill sets. which also helps as well. but what was the vision then right at the beginning? And has it changed much? I mean, you know, because it's been a while now. and how are you bringing that next leadership team up underneath you know, the original leadership team?

25:13Yeah, absolutely. Good question. So I think firstly between between the three founders there's three quite diverse skill sets in terms of the different backgrounds that we've all got. We all we all come from deep SAP industry backgrounds but each of us has slightly different and complimentary skills. So so that's allowed each of us to take different seats within that that that that founders triangle as such and to perform different roles in in that that foundational leadership. that then also has meant that our roles as the organization has grown has meant that we have built up our leadership team with Judith and myself sharing different components of that co-CEO role so that our leadership team beneath relies on each of us for different functions and for different outcomes. And I think that that split CEO function has meant that we were able to establish a bigger or broader leadership team earlier and provide them the right support because there was two of us in the role instead of one to really start to build and develop them into those leadership functions quicker.

26:17Great, great move because sometimes there's too much pressure on one person, you know, everyone wants something from the CEO because in a small business you're the you're the jack of everything, you know. and basically it's really gets a lot of pressure and and you you're obviously the person that you know looks around and helps with the the the sales side of things and everything starts with sales or starts with clients as I say you know if you don't have that then nothing can really happen. So really really wise how you split that up and get that structured so that people below know who to go to as well. Now, one of the other things I forgot to mention, you did your law degree recently. Is that did you finish it in the end or are you still doing it? What's the story there?

26:57Yeah. So, so that was an unusual moment of inspiration through the co shutdown. So, too too much time on my hands during co and so during the lockdown I I did do that through correspondence and yeah and yeah, finished it but it never went into practice though. No, but it's probably helped you quite a bit at the beginning of your life with the HR crowd because there's a lot of those legalities contracts you got to go through clients understand that with you know staff and subcontracts as well. So that skill is definitely I presume paid itself back now has it?

27:30It's definitely coming in handy from time to time. I think it's an unusual scenario when when people discover that you've got a law degree. They assume that every everything should go to you if it's legal. And so some sometimes it's you know enough of the contracts. But but it's it's an interesting mix though because I'm also of the view that as a relationship based person once the contract's out it's kind of you're you're in trouble, right? So I take all steps I can to avoid the contract being pulled out in the first place. I think it's a really good point Adrian really you bring up there because when the moment the contracts you talk about a contract it you know after you signed it you know a year later whatever else it's it's the the breakdown of relationships not recovering and and that's that's an unfortunate so you got to make sure that you either break up before you get that point and move on happily if you can't resolve but really good point because a small business like this you know you can't take the hit and and and it just doesn't you know go well if the breakup isn't good and there's so many breakups with people just like in marriage you know people just can't get on well with each other after a while. So good point though you definitely don't want to get to the point where you have to pull out a contract and and go through that.

28:43So going back onto the biggest still the background and the journey of HR crowd what was the biggest challenge you faced in the early stage of your So, so even though we started off with the intent and with quite a deliberate approach to our recruitment,

29:05Getting the first five people on board, the the the the nervousness going into those meetings to negotiate to bring on our first five and and those were leadership positions as well. They were expensive people I presume at that stage. Yeah. Very very experienced and very very established people who were already in happy roles and and very very happy where they were. They didn't know HR crowd. They didn't know the vision. and they didn't know what we were about. Getting those people on board was probably some of the hardest parts of startup, I think. And we're we're so grateful to have have gotten some really really great people. brilliant. Brilliant. So, that's right. Yeah. Convince them. And also, you got to believe in yourself. So, it's the, you know, as you said, you're taking someone away from a a really good role somewhere else and bring them on to your team and you got to make sure that your team can deliver what they had at least, you know, at a bar level, what they had and and have an opportunity to grow within your organization. So, well done on on on actually delivering on what you believed in at the time.

30:03And I think a lot of companies want to do that, but it's very difficult. normally the question the answer around that is around cash flow because the moment you hire people you've got to actually deliver their salaries and and and sometimes the client work gets delayed as you know it's not always on tap as we wanted it to be. So but that's fantastic that you've got over that early hurdle by hiring the right people. all right then we go into this is the growth and development stage o of of HR crowd. how did you scale your business from its early days to where you are now? What are the like, you know, the four or five things, Adrian, that you think you did well or maybe not if you had to look back at it that you could have done better that actually helped you to get to where you are today? there's probably a few few few areas of how we how we managed to scale quickly and and and I come back again to that initial establishment of a leadership team very early on in our growth. Yeah.

31:12That gave us the breadth both geographically but also from a customer relationship perspective to be able to build more established relationships sooner than if we had have gone the other way and started by just delivering to one project at a time. So I think that that intent to really create a practice structure early and a leadership structure early was probably one of the key areas that allowed us to scale quickly. We focused very quick, very hard on our relationship with SAP early. we already had a lot of relationships coming from previous organizations working with with SAP and obviously our individual reputations, but making sure that we presented ourselves to SAP with the right intent and the right partnership motives to ensure that they were able to support us into the market as well. and I think continuing to to maintain that that team growth strategy of of really making sure that everybody we hired was an A player. trying to make sure that we were very very careful to bring in people who were proven people that we knew and people who had the right dynamics to to actually work closely with us.

32:26That helped us to be successful but it also lowered the risk in terms of going into our engagements as well because we knew that we had the right people in the right seats to deliver those projects successfully because I think everybody knows you're only as good as your last project when you're when you're in startup mode. So sure that that was pretty key for us. And the other thing we did early on is we invested very heavily in culture and also relationships internally as well. So we made sure that we invested time and energy into how people were working together as a newly formed team and to make sure that we had the right relationship dynamics to be able to go into to projects which are high pressure situations and to be able to have the right relationships in our team to deliver successfully.

33:06Nice. Nice. So you mentioned a few things there that you know you just you know shot through them really quick but there were big big moments and big decisions you had to make. obviously you you backed SAP because a lot of you you know it was a part of the vision to be an SAP partner of Success Factors. how long did it take you to become a SAP success factors partner?

33:31Look it's it's quite a process for for anyone looking to go down that path because there's a lot of you know governance and assurance that SAP wants to put on on any organization coming into the into the ecosystem. not not just in terms of an actual process, but making sure that that partner is going to be there for the long term to make sure that they can continue to service a customer over over a significant period of time. They they they want to make sure that the right barriers are there to prevent people coming in for a short period and then not delivering the right value to a customer and obviously then impacting an SAP relationship. So, there's quite an arduous process to go through. Yeah,

34:10A lot of qualification steps. a lot of different types of reviews, not just your ability to to to sell software or to to sell a project, but your ability to deliver it and then maintain it. the the adoption of the solution, the ongoing customer engagement and making sure obviously that the the customer continues to get the most out of success factors in particular. So, it's quite a process. I'd say it's probably roughly around six months to get to to get through all that. But I I I think because we'd done all the planning prior to starting HR crowd, I think our journey might have been a bit more accelerated than what others might might experience out there. If they if they started day one and didn't have the artifacts and the background and and the qualifications and the certifications in place, it might take a bit longer.

34:54Yeah, that's it. You know, doing all that pre-work up front saves you a lot of time. you mentioned about the pre big projects. Can you just talk about the size of the projects for people there that not aware of what success factors is and what what does it really mean to do of let's say a brand new implementation at a large company at success factors implementation? Can you just talk about it because it's it's big and it's stressful. So yeah,

35:20So I think that that they are certainly big projects because it's it's one of the systems that touches every single employee in an organization and it affects them through their entire employment life cycle as well. So it it it is a a large solution. Success factors is not just a single module. It is multiple modules. It is a significant system with with specializations across it. And in particular in the current climate, the implementation of payroll in the Australian environment is quite a a complex undertaking and quite a significant undertaking. it just happens that as we started HR crowd legisl legislation etc passed where where you know things like underpayments became criminalized in in Australia. So it's the the current climate is certainly quite a a tough one on payroll and it's very very critical that organizations get that right. So when you're implementing success factors for a a large enterprise organization, it's not just the design and the build in complex Australian or New Zealand time and attendance, for example, or payroll environments. It's the the testing and the the the UAT to make sure that's absolutely spot on correct before you can go live that sees these projects take anywhere from from 6 to 12 months to deliver. So sometimes shorter, sometimes longer.

36:38Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the one of the key things that that HR crowd did to to be different to others is in that pre-work that we did before we launched HR Crowd, we spent a lot of time and effort investing in an accelerated solution that we call Elevate by HR Crowd which is a a preconfigured accelerated deployment approach which has been very very successful in helping customers to firstly de decrease the timeline

37:03Decrease the cost but most importantly to derisk that implementation to to to to use tried and proven systems to make sure that you can get through to to the end of the project with a completely compliant system. Fantastic. So that's your method, your IP, that's where you know your you know your special spices and you package that up into nice solution and you can actually guarantee certain things from that delivery and that gives a great outcome to to clients. That's awesome. Yeah. Well done. now just talking a bit bit about the regulation do you know if the regulations worldwide are as strict as Australia because you're right you know you see in the press all the time of these big companies multinationals or you know big or big billion dollar companies in Australia that haven't been paying their staff somehow for four or five years or incorrectly because it's quite a complex complex system and and me owning in two breweries you have different wage you know for for each type of of of day and type of level of staff and it gets it gets complicated just for a you know a 15 20 man brewery operation. So are we are we over complicated in Australia or is it is it like that in western western worlds as well Adrian you know.

38:20So so certainly we are up amongst the most complex in the world. both Australia and New Zealand have complex environments in terms of how we manage time and u pay and and and generally awards and and and you know EBAs etc. So we're definitely in the more complex of of the environments out there. I think if you look at the type of industries in Australia where it is particularly complex you know we've got significant mining mining presence and a lot of fly and fly out type arrangements which obviously involves complications around shifts and travel and overtime and and people being away away for for significant periods. we've got the age care sector and the home care sector and disability sectors etc that are all very very highly complex. hospitals, education is obviously a very big one. So a lot of the the complexity is is about the complexity of our workforces within different industries as well. So we we we we definitely have a tough compliance environment. We definitely have tough implementations to try and make sure that we have the right systems. but I think we are becoming better and better at addressing that and and closing those gaps around those underpayments that you mentioned.

39:34Yeah. Good. Good. I mean it's it's a difficult thing. Anyway, let's move on to some more positive things around some of the strategies to win clients and attract clients and then retain them. because you've got a your model is slightly different from a typical SI partner as I believe. So I want to unpack that a little bit. let's just talk a bit about how to attract clients at the moment. What are you doing to attract clients at the moment? I mean, a lot of how we're attracting clients is is relationship driven. is making sure that we are putting ourselves in the eyes of the customers that we want as target customers so that they know

40:17Who we are what we're about and and that they can access our services through people that they know. So making sure that we are front and center for the customers that we want to target is probably key. Be being visible and being available. But then the actual attraction side of things is to make sure that we can put something in place for our customers that actually helps them solve a problem that is critical for them.

40:40And that's where we were very deliberate in in in establishing an advisory capability up front where we can actually help the customer before they've even made a technology decision. So, so before they've decided that success factors is the answer for their organization, we're helping them to address the business challenges that they are trying to to to meet through whichever HR or payroll technology they end up choosing. Now, that could be tackling recruitment and onboarding challenges. It could be tackling you know some of those underpayments and payroll complexities that that that are you know in the press very very frequently. U it could be general engagement. It could be trying to reduce attrition. There's a whole bundle of different reasons that we can help customers through our advisory services before they get down to that actual technology choice and then the technology becomes the enabler of how we solve the problem for them.

41:31So I think that that that establishment of a of a an advisory capability was pretty key. Yeah. And the second one is that we make sure that we lead not so much with the technology first but actually with business process and the process efficiency as our leading conversation. So so how do we help an organization to operate more efficiently through HR or payroll processes and really how do we help them to optimize the experience their employees are having in the same thing and by optimizing the processes and making sure the processes are efficient that helps a business to actually get the returns on their investment in the technology. For sure. Okay. Because these big organizations they a lot of people and if the processes aren't broken then you know you actually being very unefficient and things are going wrong. So yeah really really important to review that. Now just just to go back a step or two around the success factors advisory board and and all those type of things. Are you going to create an advisory council for other clients to come on together and work together on new new releases or upgrades or is that just advisory really just for each client? That's your initial engagement approach.

42:47So, so there are certainly areas where where we are trying to solve common challenges for customers and we are bringing customers together where we've identified a a common need or a common outcome that they they are looking for and we're solving some of those problems through not just success factors native solutions but also through extensibility on the business technology platform or BTP where we're actually helping to extend the success factors capability to suit a particular industry or or or a need. So we're doing something specific in the mining space at the moment and also something in the the health and age care sector at the moment where it's actually very specific requirements for those groupings of organizations and we're actually bringing customers together to solve that collectively. There's been quite quite a good outcome for those customers.

43:33That's great because customers want to hear, you know, from other customers what's really working, not working and and learn from them as well because they they're in their silos. Let's be honest. They're under the pump. they're trying to deliver for their business units and and their their clients which are you know the business units. So it's always that nice feeling when you're bringing the community together and obviously from your previous background around you know the ecosystem and the charity together and I think you' you'd actually excel in that. So yeah great that you're doing that and if you're not doing it well enough please do it. I think it's going to be a really good opportunity to bring people together in the ecosystem around you know HR success factors. So well done on that. So you that's how you're attracting clients. It's it's pretty good. How you how are are you retaining customers? do you have a process? Do you have a mechanism or do you have any special thing that you do to retain customers?

44:29Yeah. So I think it starts with our our actual company values. So so our leading we've got six company values. The two leading ones are customer outcomes and customer centricity. And that's key not just at the outset of a project, but actually in terms of tracing through a project and making sure that throughout that project and at the end of the project, we have successfully achieved or overachieved what the outcomes were that saw the customer undertaking that investment in technology in the first place. So making sure that we keep our eye on the business goal that we're trying to achieve. Not just implementing technology for technologies sake, but implementing technology to enable better business. And that that that focus and that real intent in how we do things helps us to stay firstly on track from a scope perspective. protect timelines, but al also to support our customers to make sure that we actually achieve what we need to from that technology project and and if it's not going to achieve it, we can pivot, we can change, and we can direct that project back on track to make sure that we do actually achieve that outcome. for sure. Now

45:30The second there is the you covered. Sorry. The second part of that is the centricity side of things and and making sure that if we make a a recommendation or if we try and guide our customer with an idea or a thought that is actually for the customer and it's not for our own interests. And there have been occasions where that's done us out of a project or done us out of an engagement because we've recommended against doing something because we haven't seen it in the customer's best interests. But it means that in the long term, the customer knows that we're not going to be trying to sell software for the sake of selling software. We're not going to be trying to implement something unless we see a real return in doing so. And and that to us is a very key part of the ongoing trust and partnering

46:10For sure. So you're doing the implementation or advisory up front to make sure that the customers know what they're going to get and and does it map to their user case. You do the implementation. do you do the support of the system as well? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, we've got quite an established managed services offering. We actually call it crowd assist.

46:31And it's much more than just a break fix type of scenario. And the reason we've done this is we've taken a holistic look at what it takes to be effective and success factors support. And we've also looked at the fact that the rate of change in the SAS software world and the rate of change in the HR and payroll software world has never been greater. And so to stay ready for change and to be able to adopt change in the future, you need to keep your success factors solution firstly up to date from a from a releases perspective, but also you need to consider the prerequisites of what you might be preparing for. And obviously the AI conversation is is pertinent to much of that. but making sure that through managed services you're not not just solving break fix tickets you're fixing root causes so they don't recur but secondly that you're then starting to become proactive in making sure that you get the user adoption that your employees are engaging with your system effectively processes are operating effectively and that really those efficiencies are flowing through into better engagement with your employees but then the final part of that is making sure that you're proactively being ready for the next technology releases that are coming so that you can give your employees access to the latest features in success factors as well.

47:41Brilliant. Brilliant. So, you manage it through your your managed layer and then you've do you do the payroll as well nowadays or or is that something that you're looking at into manage the payroll process? It it it's not something that's currently on our radar in terms of the actual management of the payroll because many of our customers are are large established large enterprise customers where they they often manage it

48:05Fair enough. But the other shift in that is that payroll now in the modern success factors world is is is slightly more proactive or or or it is more proactive than it was in in the past through functionality like payroll control center which really actually puts customers in the in the driving seat with payroll rather than the the traditional rush you know a few days before payroll to get it into the system and then do your reporting afterwards and it's it's a mad panic to get payroll out the door. Yeah,

48:32Payroll now is is is an ongoing proactive service as such through through the the modern payroll For sure. Now, you talked a bit about you know that trying to keep the the SAS solution that you know you support up to up to up to scratch so that you can leverage the new innovation, new technologies. you mentioned AI obviously that's a big thing everyone's talking about at the moment. how is H a HR and AI coming together on the successive plat successive platform and what does it look like in the future?

49:07Yeah. So I think if you go back to to to just the most fundamental parts of the highest volumes of transactions that that an HR service desk might get. you know, payday. Everyone wants to know why their pay pay slip is different to to the last period or the period before or or how it's interpreted. The ability of an AI agent or or Juul in this case to be able to answer that question on the spot on the fly by interrogating its own data and looking into your paylip for you. That type of functionality when you put that into the field and you spread it across 20 or 30,000 employees, that's a huge timesaver for an organization, huge cost saver for an organization. But for the employee themselves, they're not sitting on on hold waiting. They're not, you know, on a Friday afternoon before they go home having a panic because they haven't been paid correctly. They're getting an on the spot answer absolutely in real time and solving their problems without any delay. So, it's a massive win for both sides.

50:04That's a brilliant case. It's a so because you know really at the end of the day, everyone is the number one thing you got to worry about when you have a services business or a any business is your staff. And if they're not getting paid or they don't understand the payroll process because it's changed well because because last month it was last month and it's like 30 days you don't remember what it was, you know. So I suppose that must cut down a lot of a lot of noise.

50:30Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a huge time saver and it does cut down the the and it makes it so much easier for people to be able to relax knowing that they've got the shortity of an immediate answer. when it comes to people's pay and particularly you know Australia has got very high cost of living at the moment and people are under significant stress to be able to get immediate answers for things like that can can make a real difference to employees who who may even be living week to week and dependent entirely on the answer being real time so so putting that power back into an employes's hands I think is is quite a critical step forward

51:05Yeah great so Juul is the SAP AI machine what explain that to anyone out what that really means. So, it's an interesting one in terms of Juul right now being the success factors a AI chatbot per se. You can ask it many many questions that it's evolving every single day and the ability of it to deliver answers and outcomes keeps progressing more and more. It's actually a a really really cool interface. But where it's going in terms of the agentic AI world and and the ability of an agent to talk to an agent is that Juul is now extending outside of the success factors world. It's able to interrogate answers from other chatbots. It's able to bring answers back into success factors. that's able to go into another system, whether it's a time and attendance system or you know a third party safety app or or something like that and actually interrogate that AI bot and bring back an answer into success factors as well. So so the the power of Juul is actually increasing every single day.

52:11It's pretty amazing seeing how quickly this progresses. Yeah, it's amazing. Are you using any sort of AI to help with the delivery of your projects at the moment or is that something you're planning in the future? So there there there is the evolution of of duel for consultant at the moment which is which is being reviewed and and and and adopted in some parts. It's not extensively used as yet but I think that will start to emerge more and more. and I think it's that that same ability to to refocus consulting effort into the areas where it's higher value or requires people decisioning as opposed to AI decisioning and allowing us to to refocus our our consulting workforce into the really higher value or relationship driven or workshop driven environments and taking away some of the more menial parts of consulting work that that perhaps might have taken time in the past. So, so using Juul for consultant or other tools, other AI tools helps us to to really make sure our customers are getting the most out of the time that they engage us for.

53:12Okay, brilliant. And you know a lot of my clients are are using AI to starting to deliver their solutions to clients and they actually are cutting down their hours on the consulting gigs you know for the deliveries of those things and obviously that's going to pick up at some stage as the AI tools get you know get better and better as they are every sort of couple of months. how does the model at HR crowd look like? Cuz you know obviously you had a team before a very skilled experienced team that's your a team as you as you call it. You had them out there delivering work and obviously as you said you had the advisory initially and then once they decided it's the right tool and what the processes were then you did the mapping and then you did the implementation. how does the AI in the future, how does a model look like at at HR crowd? Does it change much or or does it just mean you do things quicker and faster?

54:11So I think it's going to be an interesting path to see exactly how far the AI a a AI capability can actually drive implementations themselves. There are certainly areas where we are seeing the use of AI accelerate the ability to to configure or to to to create repeatable processes and obviously within the solution the ability to take high volume processes and make them repeatable through AI but with HR and payroll in particular there is a significant peoplebased focus in in in how we implement technology. So even though success factors is the technology it is the engagement with the business and the stakeholders of the business that is really key to getting the right solution in place and I think there are there are some areas that AI won't be able to close the gaps in terms of those those people engagement sides of what makes a project successful.

55:05Yeah, I think you I think you're right thinking about I mean you're obviously doing this every day. and and you you but you're right because everyone is really always concerned when it's come down to payroll and HR because it's such a big contentious thing and you can't get it wrong that it'll be one of the last things to probably go into AI as much as the other areas potentially.

55:28Yeah. Yeah. So I think the the payroll data side and and and the general PII data side of things is obviously a a ongoing concern when it comes to to any AI tool. Obviously within success factors that is that is a a safe space because it's a native success factors tool but I think there's probably an amount of caution on any external AI solution being given access to any organization's personnel data. It's it's a very very careful space to be aware

55:55Very very careful. now innovation business strategy how you you know obviously you're growing as a consultancy firm you don't have a big offshore team at all do you have offshore team yet or or just as it Yeah we do so we've got an established glo global team coming out of predominantly Manila and a small amount in Singapore as well and so that that that is a growing area for us and we've got some pretty amazing people delivering services from from both locations at the moment.

56:24Brilliant. Brilliant. So how do you marry up innovation and and the business strategy in the next two to three years as a as a IT services firm? Have you do you talk about that every every sort of strategy session you do or board meeting or as a leadership team? Are you are you talking about that much?

56:44Yeah, absolutely. So we've actually got an established technology and innovation practice led by Malcolm Zones and and they are entirely driven with with asking the question of how do we do things differently? where are there ways that we can do or deliver a service in a different way or are there ways that we can extend the success factor solution to to suit particular industries or particular functionality that's not available currently. but also then how do we prepare for some of the future roadmap items coming from SAP so so you know just last week SAP announced that they're moving into the the workforce planning space or the rostering space so there's there's some amazing developments and functionality coming there so so how do we start to innovate to get ahead of that

57:30But then also with our accelerated solution how do we continue to deliver innovation on top of that as well so so we are looking at innovation and the use of technology to innovate across across nearly everything we do. Great. Great. you can only do that with a mature sort of experienced team and and and you know, you add a you a constant quality output. So that's fantastic. You obviously got to that sweet spot as I as I call it. are you delivering to any companies outside of Australia? It's New Zealand I

58:01Yeah. So we have an established New Zealand organization as well. So our customers at the moment are Australia and New Zealand focused. Yeah. and that is part of us not just keeping to our technology niche but keeping to a geographic niche as well to make sure that we certainly certainly stay within our specialization but also that we can continue to deliver to customers in a in a common environment as well. So the A&Z space we know very very well from an industry perspective but also when it comes to payroll from a legis legislative perspective as well. So it's very very important to us to stay within our geographic boundaries as well as our our

58:37Great. I like that niche and laser shop focus. Well done. So team and culture, we talked a bit about that early on. so you probably some of these things you've already gone through, but as you're building your team, you you know, we know that you're a bit of a team player, Adrian. You're bringing that sort of together with the other the f co-founders as well and the culture, you're building that culture up. how you how are you getting the remote people to be involved in that as well so they don't feel left out? Are you doing anything special around

59:08Yeah, so it's been at the the forefront for for HR crowd since we started. So as a predominantly virtual first organization, but also as a geographically dispersed workforce, it's been critical to us to make sure that we maintain a focus on culture and inclusion through through our growth. And so we focused in our first year through some relationship coaching engagement on making sure that everybody was able to build relationships with each other and learned how to work together in a high performing team. Made sure that high performance was at the core of what we what we focused on both in our delivery but also in our our internal working.

59:42But the other thing we've done is we we we've made sure that we've invested every year not just in u getting people together but getting people together with purpose as well. So, so we've brought people together, you know, most most recently was a couple of months ago up on the up on the Gold Coast. We brought everyone from the Philippines, from Singapore, from New Zealand and across Australia all into the one location and spent a good couple of days together. We made sure we spent the days working on how we're going to to plan for the year to come. and maybe the evenings were were slightly light-hearted and and less serious than the days, but but the the the value of bringing people together, the value of making sure that people get time in person is really really important from a culture perspective.

1:00:23Yeah, I think you the other thing we the other thing we have is is two very personally focused values at HR crowd. we we very much focus on making success fun and celebrating our successes, making sure that we celebrate not just organizational success but individual success and that can be both in and out of the workplace as well. So making sure that we have avenues for people to to share and to celebrate what is successful for them. What successes have they experienced with their kids? Maybe it could be you know one of our one of our leaders has a has a daughter who is a very very good tennis player and tennis coach and got featured in a New Zealand tennis video and and that was a really really important thing to celebrate. one of our Melbourne team has two very very talented daughters who are excelling and and winning all sorts of awards and so we celebrate that. we have another another one of our our leaders who's actually a longtime band lead singer had a 20-y year reunion and so many of us traveled down to Melbourne and and and had a night watching him play and and really celebrated him and his band. So, so all sorts of ways to celebrate personal success as well as the broader success has really helped to build a culture of

1:01:35It makes it fun and makes it enjoyable. That's what people want to work in their organization. So, that's that's pretty good. Pretty well done. we're going to quickly go on to the conflict side because there's obviously with people there's a lot of ambitions and people want to be that that person that golden you know child you know is some of them look up to the leadership team. How are you managing conflicts at the moment? Do you have a process to manage conflicts among staff? we've been been quite lucky. I think we haven't really had too many situations where we've had to manage any significant any significant conflict. I think we have I guess a regional leadership structure in place where where people have a very very direct relationship with their management.

1:02:22They have people management but also solution and capability management within the organization as well. So, so if there's conflict that that that does occur, it it's remedied very very quickly through the personal relationships they have firstly with each other, but secondly with with management as well with their with their direct people managers, but also you know the the the two co-CEOs in the organization are very very active in the organization. We have personal relationships with every single person as well. Y

1:02:50And so really nothing has come to the boil that couldn't have been resolved very very quickly. And I think it's all about making sure that it is personal, individual, and that people are treated very very fairly, given the chance to to to voice concerns and also having them directly addressed as well. Sure. So, it's keeping that pulse on on your team. It's really important by the sounds of things and if you if you do that, it's good lessons learned. we we spoke a bit about your ideal client already. and and I think it's it's Australia, New Zealand, it's SAP success factors generally. those are the things you're doing. there is a bit of a super cycle if you want to call it with the upgrades on you know on on the ERP side is that impacting the growth of the opportunities for you as well

1:03:38Yeah definitely I think that there's a number of number of contributors to to the growth that have come from from the market itself and I think the end of life of ECC looming has meant a lot of customers are in the position now where they're considering their future state HR and payroll options and so that can be S4. some of the the the larger complex time and pay customers might choose to go there before going to success factors but the majority of the market is going where the innovation is. The majority of the market is going where their their long-term opportunity to innovate sits and that really is with success factors. That's where SAP is investing their their R&D and innovation. So, so most customers through that end of life ECC date are going towards success factors at at a rate of not because there is some urgency around it. So, we we certainly have benefited from that.

1:04:30Yeah. Brilliant. There's always, you know, you got to have a bit of luck in the market. The timing's got to be right. Sounds like you've got a bit of the the timing on your side, which is awesome. how long does that super cycle you think last for, Adrian? Have you guys looked into that at all or put some numbers or dates or anything around that? So, so realistically the the end of ECC support is only a part of the a part of the journey. the emphasis on workforce engagement and employee engagement and the evolution of change that's coming through technology at the moment, we'll see that journey continue way past that 2027 date. you know, the the the way that HR and payroll processes are improving and becoming more efficient, but adopting new technology and new ways of doing things. you know this is going to go way past 2030 and continue on from there. So I think there's a very very long long future ahead for success factors and how it's evolving in large organizations.

1:05:26Great great that's awesome. Okay. now just quickly some challenges that you've been through and you've seen in the IT services industry. What do you think you know is the biggest challenge out there at the moment that you faced or or people are going to face in the in the IT services industry at the moment? what what do you think because there's a lot of movement there's a lot of excitement around AI there's a bit of a worry it's jobs going to be you know in certain tech roles are going to be made redundant what do you see out there that's happening Adrian yourself

1:06:00So I think probably the the the amount of noise and messaging that is out there from so many different vendors with comparable solutions out there not so much comparable from an HR app or payroll perspective but the amount of different choice there is in the emerging technologies. So, so if you look at the amount of people offering AI solutions at the moment or the amount of people trying to automate processes and and provide very very pointed third party products to add on to or the amount of different people with with data solutions and things like that that that broader noise can take away u the focus on actually what is the technology choice that an organization is making. And

1:06:43I think it's quite a quite a difficult thing if you're on the receiving end of so many different vendors trying to sell you so many different technologies to actually determine which way you should go or which way you should cancel out that noise and focus on the the path that's already in front of you. Yeah, I think you're right. there is a lot of noise. Everyone every second person's an AI consultant at the moment. And it was sort of like when in my day when we were doing analytics you know it was it was reporting initially then it became analytics then it came BI business intelligence and it sort of then a data scientists you know it sort of evolved now everyone's sort of an AI consultants at the moment so there is a lot of noise I see it across my clients I coach you know that some of them have now have got an AI division in the team that's delivering AI to clients you know and it'll be interesting to see where it all lands eventually as you know there's always that hype cycle as we see in Gartner you know have we hit the ceiling yet or when's that going to hit or you know there's always that downside where people have overinvested so we'll have to wait and see what happens there in that sort of space now who's your typical do you have a typical competitor in the market is it the big four or five or are there other niche players competing with you and how do you sort of how do you sort of work about where your position is in the market as well, Adrian.

1:08:07Yeah, absolutely. So, it's an interesting market. The success factors market, I mean the SAP market generally, but the success factor market, we all know each other. We all know where we play. we partner with organizations, we help organizations that also we compete with on other opportunities. So, it's really about what is the customer and what is the project and how do we form the right team to give them an outcome. So

1:08:32Sometimes there will be opportunities which need to be led by one of the tier one organizations and so we wouldn't choose to to encroach on that space and we choose to partner instead. Sometimes an organization wants a much more agile niche player who can bring real real business expertise to the table in a manner that's really really easy to engage and that's where we would go and and really help that customer through. sometimes a customer wants you know that that that niche specialist organization as opposed to a T1 because they're trying to solve a very specific problem.

1:09:05So we find ourselves both partnering and competing with the ecosystem both with the other niche players and also with with the tier ones. But then the other area that we focus carefully on is making sure that we can provide end-to-end capability where customers want an end-to-end ERP solution. We will partner with organizations who might specialize purely within the the ERP space. So the the the S4 public cloud space or or the the more traditional S4 space around finance and logistics and and supply chain etc. So, so we leverage a lot of partnerships across the marketplace and once again that's back to relationship driven

1:09:45For sure. Are all those big organizations that have a success factor need you know is that going to be limited at some point because everyone's going to have a solution that's either success factors or competitor tool to it. Will there will there be a point where it's very mature that market? I I I think the market is constantly evolving because it it's reached a volume of of organizations running either a success factors or a competitive product.

1:10:15But there's always going to be that that amount of the market that is looking to change. so I think that the market has has significantly progressed. where is interesting is the emergence of SAP in some of the the mid-market spaces the the the small to medium enterprise where SAP and success factors technology has become much more accessible than it ever was before and that's not just through the the actual licensing consumption side but it's also through the rapid deployment and implementation through accelerated solutions like our elevate by HR crowd. So the ability of small to medium enterprise to to actually achieve that maturity through tier one technology has never been easier for them to

1:10:58Great. Great. now we're going to just talk a bit about you know the personal side of things Adrian. some sticky questions. you've got an awesome business. It's going really really well but it could not have been easy the whole way through it. I mean there's we all know as business owners you have your cycles of positivity and you know drop off a cliff. something goes wrong and you work out, you know, how the hell are we going to sort this mess out or how we're going to change that challenge? Can you just talk about a a failure or a setback and how you overcame it over the last couple of

1:11:29Yes, look, I think I mean every every quarter presents different challenges and and markets go up and down and activity levels go up and down. you know, I I think for us, we have had a a reasonably fortuitous run in that the market has been quite buoyant for the majority of our time. So, it's been a a a fairly good couple of years for us. but we have had, you know, projects go on hold because of reasons outside of our control and things like that. And that that for a small business can be quite difficult when you when you're all permanent employees like we are. M

1:12:02It's a very very careful thing to manage the cash flow and the utilization and and the typical levers of a of a services organization and so if a large project gets paused for a period that can create an immediate bench problem for a for a services organization. So for us that that created a need to very very quickly pivot to make sure that we could get and obtain you know work work in a way that was going to be good good for us and good for our team members but also to make sure we didn't have any significant gaps as a result of that project pausing. we we were lucky enough to be able to do that without having any serious delay or any any significant delay. But but I know for other organizations that that that can be a a challenge that you need need to overcome. So I think if you're a services organization looking to to go down this path, being ready and prepared that sometimes even the most stable projects could take a pause and being prepared for what that might look like and having a having a mitigation in place is probably pretty key.

1:12:58Great. Great. You know, it's it's it's going to there's always those things that as you said that come back to you that you don't expect the client's verbally given it to you. Oh, the contract's going to be out there next week. And and then two days later, radio silence and then you phone them up and you you know, you know there's something wrong and then you realize that you got either gazumped by a higher initiative at that client or or they put everything on hold. So it does happen. So yeah, you got to protect yourself around that. Really good to hear that you've guys got some some safeguards around that. what happens any advice Adrian that you know that you would like to give an aspiring IT sort of professional services business owner that you know they can think I know like there's some really good takeaways. Do not start the business you know without thinking about it 6 months and and ahead and and have a a sort of like a checklist to go through to before you do that. That's one of your one of the things I've taken away from the beginning of the discussion. But is there anything any other advice you would give to anyone that wants to do something like you're doing?

1:13:58So, so I think yeah, per your comment, being being prepared before you start the business is definitely a key part. I think making sure that the weight's not all on one person's shoulders is also another key part. Making sure you've got the right expertise and skills around you. Either people who've done it before as your as your partners or people who have complimentary skill sets as your partners. But if you're doing it solo, making sure you've got access to coaching or mentoring that will help you to be to be guided through probably key. And making sure that you have a clear view of where your revenue is going to come come from in those early days is is probably also the other the other key thing I think is is critical. if you start day one without a clear view of where your revenue is going to come from, that delay to achieve revenue can be what what what stops you getting off the mark. So, I think that's probably another have customer one in your mind from day one.

1:14:52It all starts with clients. It all starts with clients. Definitely. Well, thanks very much, Adrian, for coming on to the show today. It's been awesome. I've, you know, I've known you for a while and you, you've got such an awesome business there at HR Crowd. I I look forward to see what happens over the next three or four years with HR Crowd. and we'll keep an eye on it. Thanks very much for your time today.

1:15:15Amazing. Thanks so much, Ian. Much appreciated. Thanks for joining us on IT Mastermind Talks. Don't miss out on our next episode. Hit the follow button and stay updated. Want to be our next podcast guest? Contact us and share your expertise with our audience. Visit www.itmastermindalks.com for more information.